When Your Brand New Car Gets A Rebuilt Engine - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 11/05/2015 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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Many people are shocked to learn that their “brand new” car will be given rebuilt or remanufactured parts under warranty. The problem is that this is explicitly allowed by the warranty itself.

I get called from time to time by car owners whose relatively new cars have had something huge go catastrophically wrong. Engines explode; transmissions fail. And when they take the car to the dealer, they freak out when they are told that their car will get rebuilt or remanufactured parts to replace the broken ones.

As I have to tell these people, the warranty booklet in your glovebox says they can do that. And you would have known that if you had read the booklet. Which almost no one ever does. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and now it is the subject of my most recent podcast. Here is the audio:

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And the video.

BTW, the top pic is what it would have looked like if Bobby Isaac beat Richard Petty and Ramo Stott to the line at Atlanta, back in the day. At speed, this is one where the official record would have said the margin of victory was “inches.”

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

Wheelerguy > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 09:09

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Hmm... gotta wonder what will change in terms of driving dynamics with no wing.

SteveLehto > Wheelerguy 11/05/2015 at 09:11

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All three cars have wings. You might not be able to see it because of the background.

LongbowMkII > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 09:16

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it makes sense. regardless of the logistical impracticality of pulling ‘BRAND NEW’ engines off the production line, you likely didn’t blow up a 5 mile old engine. a re-manufactured part (with it’s own warranty I assume) is just as good and is easier and cheaper for everyone.

the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 09:19

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When you own a Chrysler B-body, like the Wing Cars, and how the cars are rapidly approaching a half century in age, you’re thankful to get parts from ANYWHERE.

Goose > LongbowMkII 11/05/2015 at 09:22

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Sometimes times remanufactured parts can be better because they often have stricter quality control procedures. Many places inspect every single remanufactured part to make sure it is up to spec; while maybe only every 1:10, 1:100, or even 1:1000 new manufactured part is inspected to that level.

TractorPillow > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 09:22

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This is cool! I just listened to your podcast the other day about the three coolest cars you've driven. Pretty great stories, really enjoy the podcast. Hope my wife will on our twelve hour drive today.

theshinobi01 > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 09:25

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Computers are the same way, most of the time, when it goes in for repair, you get refurbished parts. Those parts usually have a 90 day warranty or until the warranty of the computer is over, whichever is longer. There aren’t an unlimited supply of new engines, so that’s where defective engines that are repaired go...

arrrrr32 > Wheelerguy 11/05/2015 at 09:26

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Question answered On Oppo not too long ago

Le Monstre > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 09:29

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With transmissions, it’s sometimes cheaper, and faster to just rebuild the unit if a whole unit isn’t easily obtainable (Not enough spares produced yet to send out) However, sometimes they will pull a unit right off the line just so they can inspect the old unit that failed. We had an ATS with a 2.0T that blew with a hair over 2K. GM personally delivered the new unit, and waited for us to put the old unit on the crate, and they personally drive it back to the factory to examine it. Never heard what they found out, but I can tell you, haven’t had another case like that since.

Eddie-Kulk > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 09:34

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As with the 3 “re-manufactured” steering racks that the Chevy dealer put on my Silverado under warranty... which all leaked every bit as bad as the one that it rolled off the assembly line with. And they also replaced the power steering pump and all of the lines, just to be sure.

New, re-manufactured... didn’t matter. They were all rubbish.

And it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, this was during that magical time while GM was in bankruptcy.

Urambo Tauro > Le Monstre 11/05/2015 at 09:35

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When a repair is performed, the customer is usually entitled to the old parts. But in the case of new-car warranties, it’s a very good thing for the manufacturers to take the part home and see where they screwed up.

Mikey > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 09:35

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Didn’t get a chance to listen to the podcast, but I can say this: at any reputable plant, the reman engines are just as good as the brand new ones. I was a transmission engineer, and saw/participated in the reman process at a couple of facilities. They get complete tear-downs, inspections, and everything that needs to be replaced is replaced. I’d even argue they get MUCH more attention than brand-new units, because one guy is tearing down, inspecting, and building them by hand. While I haven’t seen this process in-person for engines, I would imagine it is exactly the same at my former company. So if you lament about not being able to get a hand-built engine in a performance car anymore, just get a reman :)

That said, this was what I saw at one company in particular — Toyota. I can’t say anything for certain about any other manufacturer. But even as a former employee, I would have 100% faith in a reman unit from that particular company.

Cory Stansbury > Mikey 11/05/2015 at 09:37

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I tend to agree with you. I make it a point to buy reman’d stuff any chance I can. I have had excellent, if not better service from them due to the scrutiny applied.

Urambo Tauro > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 09:38

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I thought I remembered reading somewhere that some racing team (F1?) specifically sought after “seasoned” engine blocks from used road cars for their race engines. I want to say they were Hondas...?

SteveLehto > Eddie-Kulk 11/05/2015 at 09:44

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If the design is bad, all the remanufacturing in the world won’t help.

SteveLehto > Mikey 11/05/2015 at 09:45

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Which is one of the things I say: You might not like getting one at first but in many ways, it is just as good or better than new.

SteveLehto > Urambo Tauro 11/05/2015 at 09:45

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Back in the day, NASCAR teams would sometimes use blocks pulled from junkyards when they were in a hurry.

Rick Cavaretti > Urambo Tauro 11/05/2015 at 09:48

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Blocks that have undergone multiple heating and cooling cycles...and survived...will likely be reliable in a stressed racing application.

Nobi > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 10:02

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I’ve got a story for you, one that I’ll have to omit names to avoid trouble. A few months back at the Acura dealer I work for, a brand new MDX with 1400 miles came in complaining of a transmission that wouldn’t shift properly from the gear selector. My neighboring technician got the vehicle and found that the shift cable which is connected to a bracket held to the transmission case by two nuts was not only missing one nut completely, but the second one was halfway backed off causing the cable to flex as it was being shifted. He also noticed lots of the plastic clips were missing and plastic panels under the car were misaligned. Wondering what happened to this thing with such low miles, he went on to this database we have access to and found out that the car was from down south and had shifting issues brand new. They replaced the transmission with a remanufactured unit. Yes, a remanufactured, previously in another vehicle transmission in a brand new car, and sold it to the customer without telling her. Then she drove it all the way up here to SE Mass/Rhode Island with the shift cable barely hanging on. Our manager told the tech not to say a word about the transmission and to say that the nuts holding the cable on were loose from the factory. I still feel sketchy about that to this day and I didn’t even work on the car.

Jorge Milian > Urambo Tauro 11/05/2015 at 10:03

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BMW.

Have Jeep, will travel. > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 10:04

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People act like a reman is any worse then a new engine. It honestly makes no difference. Well, except you know, a used reman block may not have a porus casting to leak in a rhousand miles, casting flaw, etc.

SteveLehto > Have Jeep, will travel. 11/05/2015 at 10:09

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I agree. The only real gripe is that the car’s value will be diminished to future buyers due to the stigma of having had a major repair done. But there’s no way to avoid that (if the engine was rebuilt at the dealer instead of being replaced with a rebuilt - same thing).

Le Monstre > Urambo Tauro 11/05/2015 at 10:11

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Yes, the old BMW M10 blocks I believe, usually found in taxis. By 1986 they were crazy, and called the Megatron, producing somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500HP.

Telecaster1959 > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 10:12

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Every picture is improved when a Superbird is added, IMO.

Jorsher > theshinobi01 11/05/2015 at 10:17

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Years ago I worked at an LG Electronics location that served multiple purposes including appliance refurbishing, TV/monitor refurbishing, phone refurbishing, a call center, party supply for certified refurbishing/repair companies, etc. I’ve learned that overall, the refurbished products went through a much more rigorous QA process. Before then, I assumed it was the other way around, and I believe that may be the common misconception.

Generally the cosmetic parts were almost always replaced, the "broken" part of the circuitry was replaced, and then a thorough test was performed to verify that there weren't any unknown problems. Of course, it's unknown how other companies handle refurbishing, but since then I've been less hesitant to buy refurbished electronics. Especially considering they're often given similar or exactly the same warranty periods.

Future next gen S2000 owner > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 10:22

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Is it just me or is this nose cone longer than the others? Amazing pic.

redshark > Nobi 11/05/2015 at 10:25

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I work for a dealer, and have worked with many different makes. I believe the rule is that if the car is not sold yet, any part replaced has to be new. as soon as customer takes delivery, remanufactured parts can be used. BTW I am in parts dept.

Nobi > redshark 11/05/2015 at 10:26

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Which make? I’ve worked for GM and Honda, and they’re like night and day as far as their policies go.

SteveLehto > Future next gen S2000 owner 11/05/2015 at 10:29

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The far one is a Daytona. It has a differently shaped nose than the two Superbirds.

JohnnyGTO67 > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 10:37

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My wife had the entire front subassembly, engine to half-shafts replaced by Volvo so they could evaluate the XC90s V8 oiling issue. Didn’t find out they had done this until one of the assembly pointing bolts dropped out on the driveway! Yikes!

redshark > Nobi 11/05/2015 at 10:37

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I work for a kia dealer. it’s been a couple of instances where we hat to put engines in unsold cars, and we had to use new units. I used to work at GM and it was the same. maybe it’s a state law? I’m in Florida.

we also had an instance where a newly bought car needed a new engine and we had to use reman per warranty policy. customer wasn’t happy but there was nothing we could do.

Sethersm > Mikey 11/05/2015 at 10:38

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I can see why this might be true. When re-building, you measure everything, toss out of tolerance parts and replace with new which you’ll probably check over too. When building, you get a lot of parts in and either A) take the supplier at their word that they’re right, B) measure a sample of parts to see if they’re right, or C) do nothing but put them together (similar to A). With the re-build, you get 100% inspected parts. With the new, you don’t know. No OEM manufacturer is going to do 100% inspection as the cost and time consumption would be outrageous.

ThisFoolBeFreddy > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 10:41

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When my wife’s still under warranty Equinox had engine problems (kept letting oil leak and mix with gas I think) they replaced it with a rebuilt engine. In our opinion the rebuilt engine was a better option than continuing to deal with the faulty one. Luckily we soon got rid of it for something bigger so we didn’t have a chance to see if we made the right decision.

Mikey > Sethersm 11/05/2015 at 10:46

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Yup, and if I had to guess, I would have to say it’s significantly more expensive for the manufacturer than a production line build (except for part value, which will be about $1000 savings with the reused parts).

Future next gen S2000 owner > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 10:53

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I was trying to show the far one. Kinja’d. Good to know.

marcoaml78 > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 10:53

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My audi had turbo failure at 12k miles, it got a remanufactured turbo, it really doesn’t matter as long as the manufacturer respects the same warranty as if it was a new part.

Wagons-Midwest > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 10:54

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That happened to my parents’ 06 Forester. ‘Bad pistons’ was the explanation, and the dealer assigned a mechanic to rebuild the motor. So now it’s true 2.5 that a) has a touch more power and b) had its head gaskets replaced from the get-go. Dad revs the piss out of the poor thing, but it’s still going well.

Come to think of it, my Impreza RS had its transmission replaced just after I bought it in 2000, too. I spent a week in a week in an Outback with white lettered tires while it was being fixed.

Colddeadfinger > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 11:02

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Is this Atlanta Motor Speedway? Edit: Answered in Article. Next to last sentence.

Urambo Tauro > Le Monstre 11/05/2015 at 11:10

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That’s what it was! Thank you!

Nobi > redshark 11/05/2015 at 11:13

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I think Honda/Acura falls in the latter category. They are the definition of stingy when it comes to warranty repairs. Out of curiosity, because I’ve heard this from a few people, all parts departments have a required in-house parts list for common things like oil filters, air filters, brakes, batteries, etc. Is it true Hyundai/Kia have entire engines on their required in-house part list?

Paullubbock > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 11:27

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This goes for pretty much everything these days.

For most things not cars, the best course of action for this is simply return it completely for a refund, don’t have it fixed. Then buy a new one again. Always keep your receipts. Unfortunately the car industry is so lobby controlled you aren’t allowed to do that.

sklooner > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 11:33

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It’s like autobody repairs, some companies pay for new factory parts some specify used and some will accept new/used/aftermarket/cardboard I had one company that insisted on used parts event though I showed them that the part plus shipping was more than a new dealer part. It would piss me off if the engine in my new truck went blammo and the rebuilt had 300000 on it and bored over 0.40

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 11:35

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Excellent article/podcast!

I agree re-manufactured is totally the way to go over dealership rebuild. There are still some great technicians out there at dealerships, but they are becoming the minority. Many of the most skilled folks leave and start their own independent shops. Meanwhile, the dealers like to hire in barely qualified (or unqualified) people for low wages to reduce costs.

I would expect most re-manufactured engines and transmissions to be just as good as a new one from the factory. Sometimes they come out of the same factory, and sometimes the re-manufactured parts have updated components and are more reliable than the original new assemblies were.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 11:37

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Just goes to show how essential lowering can be on these cars.

It may still have a spear-point nose, and a gigantic wing on the back to clear the opening trunk lid, but the street car makes the wheels look tiny and the wheelbase drastically short for the car’s length, and ground clearance that most CUVS would currently appreciate having.

SteveLehto > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 11/05/2015 at 11:40

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Yes. As low as possible.

elkris > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 12:16

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I prefer re-manufactured parts. Every single one is tested, whereas new parts 1 out of every 100 or so are tested depending on batch and volume produced.

dustynnguyendood > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 12:35

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Yep - people also freak out when we tell them we’re going to put a used bumper/fender/door/wheel/headlight/whatever else on their car during collision repair.

“I DEMAND NEW PARTS FOR MY CAR!!!”

Sir/Madam - you did not bring me a new car, you brought me a used car. It may be a 2015, but it’s used. You may get new parts because they’re more readily available, but it’s not automatic.

General Mayhem > redshark 11/05/2015 at 12:40

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That’s Ford’s policy. And BTW I’m a parts guy too :) .

General Mayhem > Urambo Tauro 11/05/2015 at 12:46

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Only one customer paid repairs. On warranty repairs the parts belong to the manufacturer until told otherwise (at least with Ford).

General Mayhem > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 12:47

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Bingo.

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > dustynnguyendood 11/05/2015 at 12:48

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I had a window break at the tabs holding it to the regulator on my Corolla, several years out of warranty (and about a year before they issued a recall for wrong sized bolts on the same window on those same tabs), and I appreciated the guys at the body shop I took it to who saved me at least $100 just getting a used window (also, that instead of their estimated hour of labor, they only took and charged me for a half). [I probably culd’ve checked for the paperwork to see if I coulda got Toyota to cough up some reimbursement for that repair, but I figured it wasn’t worth the hassle of trying to argue that it was their bolts having to be too tightened down that likely caused the fracture, since there’s no way I could prove it.]

General Mayhem > ThisFoolBeFreddy 11/05/2015 at 12:49

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My sister’s 3 year old Equinox is being tested for oil consumption right now, and probably will get a new reman one very shortly.

Urambo Tauro > General Mayhem 11/05/2015 at 12:49

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Good point!

General Mayhem > dustynnguyendood 11/05/2015 at 12:54

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Most insurance companies offer riders on their policies that guarantee new parts will be used. Never had one on any of my vehicles so I don’t know how much extra they add to a given policy.

MechFreak25 > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 13:45

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I’m about to go through this process. My 2014 WRX with 25k miles (all but 5k in the last year) lunched an engine making a low speed turn in 2nd... I haven’t modified anything but the stereo and I’ve never raced it. Dealer is trying to tell me it’s because the oil was low when they checked the dipstick with the engine running. The owners manual is pretty clear that it’s to be checked with the engine off. I checked it with it off (as I do most gas stops) on the side of the road and it was perfect. Hope Subaru of America comes through for me.

Wish me luck!

Dr. Strangegun > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 14:55

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Problem with the street cars is the approach/departure angles and that we’re no longer used to seeing 15” wheels with 60 to 75 series rubber on them, so it looks taller than it is.

The height beats the snot out of ramming the nose into an agressive speedbump, any day...

SteveLehto > Dr. Strangegun 11/05/2015 at 15:08

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That’s the trade-off when you build a racecar and sell it to the public for use as a daily driver.

That front air-dam has a shorter life-expectancy than a First Lieutenant in Viet Nam.

redshark > Nobi 11/05/2015 at 15:32

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there is a software that creates a suggested list if parts to be stocked. it looks at sales history and few other parameters. yes, we stock engines in our department. but don’t take that as a negative. KIA is very reliable compared to other makes I’ve worked with. (includes American, Japanese, and German)

redshark > General Mayhem 11/05/2015 at 15:35

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working at Ford parts? that’s job security right there. 

dustynnguyendood > General Mayhem 11/05/2015 at 15:40

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Many of those that specify “new” also allow the use of aftermarket parts. I hate most aftermarket parts. They’re harder to fit (takes the techs longer so they make less) and often don’t last as long as OEM. For my own car, I’d hands-down prefer used OEM to new aftermarket.

Dolby109 > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 16:05

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I think more people need to understand that remanufactured parts, or engines aren't necessarily worse than original. A lot of the time that means it was hand assembled and inspected more closely than an assembly line part would be.

RazorGP > Wheelerguy 11/05/2015 at 16:45

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The big boon there isn’t the wing atthe top but the fins on the sides. The wide fins helped to stabilize the rear end and keep the car pointing straight. They helped the car combat the effects of running close to another car by using the clean air around the rear of car. The downforce generated by the top was negligible. They not to long ago (early 2000’s) stuck one in a modern fluid dynamics wind tunnel and found that out.

DragonBreath > SteveLehto 11/05/2015 at 18:11

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My experience is with computers not cars, but the computer industry is exactly the same. All warranty repair parts will be “refurbished” even when they are not. Dell often had to buy new parts to fill repair orders, but a refurbished sticker would be stuck on it before it was sent out to the onsite tech.

This was also true for Dell refurbished PCs. Big companies would place large orders, and then return some of them, often unopened, but because they were in the possession of the buyer, they cannot be sold as new, so they get marked as refurbished.

The Seasoning of an engine block makes perfect sense to me, I have done more than a little metalworking. Tempering is done by getting the metal really hot and then quenching it, rapid cooling. However, this tempering leaves the metal hard, but brittle. That is why good blades go through an extra process called easing, where they are heated, just not as hot as for tempering and then allowed to cool slowly. This leaves most of the hardness, but removes most of the brittleness.

Engines aren’t blades, but the repeated heating and cooling will be doing some rather amazing things to the crystalline structure inside the steel, or iron, or aluminum. That’s the seasoning, and it is why an old block does not have the same propensity for cracking and other failures that a new one does.

On the subject of resale value. Won’t the red flags you mentioned be there because an engine failed? Meaning, having nothing to do with how it was replaced? To use your example, if a new engine failed at 9000 miles, then what is to say that the replacement new engine won’t fail at 9000 miles?

Lastly, everyone should remember that unless your engine dies on the way home from the dealer, your engine isn’t new. You drive your car for a year, and the engine fails, it is a one year old engine that failed. No one would agree to replace a one year old engine with a new one.

The biggest one I remember in computers was batteries. Laptop batteries are warranted for 1 year. Check it out, I think it is pretty much industry standard, but I know it was true at Dell. If your battery fails at 9 months, Dell will send you a refurbished battery, and that refurbished battery will pick up the remainder of the warranty, three months. Why would Dell give you a new battery to replace one that has already completed 3/4 of its projected lifespan? They wouldn’t, and they don’t.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy 11/05/2015 at 18:54

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Does Year One still make repro noses and wings for these? (and the Superbird?)

Jorge Milian > Mikey 11/05/2015 at 19:54

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Another advantage is that revised parts are used in the rebuilt unit. If there’s a weak point and it’s been addressed, you’ll get the TSB applied.

Ladymopar > the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy 11/06/2015 at 01:26

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fabrication is cool :) one thing you HAVE to know how to do when owning a MOPAR!!!

Ladymopar > SteveLehto 11/06/2015 at 01:28

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Click Bait Steve-you know I’m a sucker for winged cars :) I love your pod casts!

SteveLehto > Ladymopar 11/06/2015 at 07:07

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You saw the videos I shot at the track from inside Petty’s car I hope.

General Mayhem > redshark 11/06/2015 at 09:33

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I worked in Lexus parts for a while... trust me, that was job security too. You’d be surprised at what you don’t know...

Ladymopar > SteveLehto 11/06/2015 at 13:31

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I sure did! I’m jealus of you. But, you are cool b/c you shared :) It is quite amazing that they raced them, the cross wind is crazy.

AdamG8GXP > SteveLehto 11/06/2015 at 15:12

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I trust remanufactured/refurbished anything more than brand new because, and maybe I’m wrong, they do more tests and checks for proper operation after the fix unlike when it is new.

the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy > Ladymopar 11/10/2015 at 16:39

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If it was easy, everyone would own a muscle car.

I’m glad it’s not easy.